Jump to content

It’s Time to Grow: Phase 3 Staking Proposal


Recommended Posts

  • Elrond Team
58 minutes ago, CAT said:

With respect to the ones in the delegation waiting list, will they be automatically allocated from that waiting list to the newly staking service providers or do we have to withdraw from the waiting list manually and opt-in for the staking provider manually as well?  

If the later, in the case where you have multiple ranks in the waiting list (say 10 in 5.000, 10 in 10,000 and 10 in 15,000) and you decide to withdraw only part of them (10), will the tokens move out in a FIFO matter (those 10 will go out of rank 5,000) or in LIFO matter (those 10 will got out from 15,000)? 

No automatic delegation, you need to undelegate from the waiting list and delegate to a staking provider yourself. In waiting queue there is no unbonding time so after unstake is processed, you can immediately delegate to a staking provider.

Should be Last In First Out

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 110
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

This proposal is focused on expanding the Elrond staking economy. Please read the information below carefully in preparation for our feedback sessions. The changes we are proposing are meant to o

I'm not part of the team, but just my humble opinion. Need to recap a bit the history to understand the present. This blockchain has less than 7 months from the mainnet and is already in top 20 - 25

Hi Milan, 1. If you run a staking service (accept delegations) there is a delegation manager contract that allows you to create your own delegation contract with your preferred configuration (ser

12 minutes ago, Disruptive Digital said:

When a node will be topped up? What will trigger this situation? It's something that can be controlled?

In my opinion there are 2 situations:
1. Any validator or a staking agency can top-up their nodes from different reasons (small amount -> and cannot start a new node or just don't want to delegate to another validator/node for a better APR - the diff is too small).
2. Imagine that all the 3200 nodes/slots will be full filled by validators/staking agencies. If (new) delegators want to delegate need to put those eGLD to top-up - there is no other way. So starting with phase 3, the max amount of eGLD staked/delegated can be up to 3200nodes*5000egld/per_node = 16 millions eGLD.

Edited by Marius Grigoras
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Razvan said:

One question: are there any other requirements besides the minim 1250 eGLD in order to become a Staking Provider?

You also need to have the right tech skills to deploy/customize a new Delegation Manager SC, deploy the site, manage the nodes (Linux skills mostly) and of course to convince people you're a trustworthy SP agency.

Some important resources:

  • Dapp boilerplate for Delegation [1] - basically you have already a web client implementation made by the Elrond team (just need to customize it as you want)
  • Delegation System Smart Contract [2] - the Delegation Manager SC

  • video materials from TrustStaking @Trust Staking [3][4] explaining the Delegation Manager deployment and how to stake via a SP

Best regards,
Marius
 

[1] https://github.com/ElrondNetwork/starter-dapp/tree/master/react-delegationdashboard 

[2] https://github.com/ElrondNetwork/elrond-specs/blob/main/sc-delegation-specs.md

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb4cfDv4XMM&feature=youtu.be&ab_channel=TrustStaking

[4] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3rDzD6TiAQ

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

How will I know my funds are in a safe place if I want to delegate my EGLD? Is there gonna be a list with stake providers?

From my point of view the easiest and the most secure method would be still via the delegation list from elrond wallet.

If there are stake providers that will like to fill up their nodes, they should ask and receive funds from the official delegation list. In this way the scam risk will be at minimum. 

Kind regards

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, encodefx said:

How will I know my funds are in a safe place if I want to delegate my EGLD? Is there gonna be a list with stake providers?

From my point of view the easiest and the most secure method would be still via the delegation list from elrond wallet.

If there are stake providers that will like to fill up their nodes, they should ask and receive funds from the official delegation list. In this way the scam risk will be at minimum. 

Kind regards

1. The eGLD delegated are not staying in the SC SP wallet, but going in the protocol used for increasing security. Yes, will be a list of all SPs. Even more, the Delegation Manager SC code is audited and open source. The SP is not the owner of your funds and you don't share your private keys with it. You can initiate the unstake operation at any time.

2. Technically is possible to have this "handshake" in place from 2 SCs but doesn't change something from security point of view. Is enough to pay attention at the official SPs web sites. If you're in the active delegation, starting with phase 3 is not mandatory to unstake and go with the SPs, you can still remain in the active delegation. Delegating to the SPs is necessary only for the ones from the delegation waiting list (but only from an economical point of view to receive rewards, the list will still be in place but not rewarded anymore).
More important to keep in mind, your suggestion to be maintained on the long term because Elrond wants to have a real decentralized network and in the final all Elrond Foundation nodes will be turned off (so no Elrond active delegation list on the long term and so on).

Best regards,

Marius

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good morning everybody, one question: I'm in delegation waiting list rank 7500, when the phase 3 will begin, I must withdraw my coins to a validator or I can also remain in waiting list on Elrond wallet? Thanks in advance for your reply

Kind regards. Massimo

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MassimoDeMarc12 said:

Good morning everybody, one question: I'm in delegation waiting list rank 7500, when the phase 3 will begin, I must withdraw my coins to a validator or I can also remain in waiting list on Elrond wallet? Thanks in advance for your reply

Kind regards. Massimo

Hi Massimo,

The delegation waiting list will remain up and running, but not rewarded anymore. 
So if you want to participate in the staking and receive daily rewards, starting with phase 3 need to unstake from the delegation waiting list and delegate to a SP agency.

Best regards,
Marius

Link to post
Share on other sites

Do we have an exact date for the begining of Phase3 ? i am far away in the waiting list (30k+) so if I need to get out of the waiting list in order to be able to delegate to an SP Agency, when will be the best time to do it ? Because it will still take a 10days period for my funds to be back in my wallet.

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, MassimoDeMarc12 said:

Ok Thanks Marius! But, as I'm not very practical to move coins ...if I decide to remain in the Elrond wallet, my rank position will increase till to arrive in active delegation? ...in some time..

 

Thanks

Massimo

Yes, technically speaking is very possible that after a period (impossible to predict) to join the active delegation. However, the SPs APR should be better than Elrond Foundation APR to stimulate the external delegation usage and speed up the decentralization. 

Best regards,

Marius

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Emil said:

Do we have an exact date for the begining of Phase3 ? i am far away in the waiting list (30k+) so if I need to get out of the waiting list in order to be able to delegate to an SP Agency, when will be the best time to do it ? Because it will still take a 10days period for my funds to be back in my wallet.

The exact date will be announced with 14 days before happening. But don't worry, the unstake period from waiting list is instant (10 days unbound period is needed only for the active delegation).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it possible to make the minimum service fee dependent on the amount of nodes in a Delegation SC?
Otherwise, larger providers will be able to offer a higher APR than smaller providers, making it relatively hard for new staking providers. Let me explain:

Why would people choose a larger staking provider?
My reasoning is: if a provider runs 50 nodes or 5 nodes, that matters for the average top-up of that provider.
Suppose that the large provider is left with 2499 EGLD and is just unable to create a new node with it. Then those 2,499 EGLD are distributed over the 50 existing nodes.
Imagine that the small provider is left with 2499 EGLD and cannot create a new node with it. Then those 2499 EGLD are distributed over the 5 existing nodes.
For example, the large provider gets an average top-up of ~ 50 EGLD and the small provider an average top-up of ~ 500 EGLD.

This way, the larger provider will be able to offer higher APR than the smaller one, according to the table. You can stimulate smaller providers by allowing them to charge a lower service fee.
I hope this makes sense.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Elrond Team
22 hours ago, George said:

Hello!

We can delegate Egld to a staking provider from Elrond wallet?

Thanks!

Once the feature gets activated it will be possible to delegate to staking service providers either from web wallet or maiar.

Both web wallet and maiar will have this activated at the same time.

At the moment this is not activated for either.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you once again Elrond team for this magnificent blockchain. 

I have considered three ideas recently, that I would like to submit for consideration or discussion. 

idea 1:   automatic node queue scaling mechanism 

I think it would benefit to take a closer examination of timing and the rate as to node expansion happens. 

In the current proposal, the maximum number of nodes, and the rate to which they are introduced, happens via a new version of the software going out, and the new numbers for maximum nodes are enabled in one change upon update. 

I think it would be a better system to introduce an automatic 'node queue scaling' mechanism that takes affect at set epochs in reaction to  changes in the numbers of nodes, both active and waiting. 

For example of the automatic node queue scaling mechanism, it could scale proportionally to the number of nodes in the wait list such as: 

if node wait list < 50 increase node maximum +n * (4) per shard 
if node wait list > 100 increase node maximum +n * (3) per shard
if node wait list > 400 increase node maximum +n * (2) per shard
if node wait list > 1000 increase node maximum +n * (1) per shard
if node wait list > 4000 increase node maximum +n * (0) per shard   

The numbers in my above example are rough guesses, but the automatic nature of the mechanism is the more important aspect. 

Automatic node queue scaling would automatically adjust ques at every set interval of [x] number of epochs. 

idea 2:  Lottery bonus payments exclusive to non-staked validator nodes 

We coould incentivize (or nft game-ify) the economics of the Observer/Wait list node queue through an additional 'lottery' bonus created/staked at the end of the epoch interval.

How? I am thinking a simple additional staking mechanism using what is currently done but one that is only given to nodes that are not in active delegation. 

Why? Not active nodes do play an important role, at least for testing, and there is currently no rewards for doing so. The possible reward amount could be very small, but at least the random chance of 'winning' a bonus would be very enticing. Or even more abstractly, you could mint egld NFT tokens as rewards, which are 'free' to mint, but would accrue value as NFTs on secondary markets. The NFT smart contract for this is not complex but the economics quite potent! 

idea 3  'golden handshake' incentive smart contract:  node retirement bonus for active nodes

Third recommendation that I have considered: 

I feel that stake operators do not have enough incentive to UNSTAKE in the current proposal. 

As we all know, an EGLD stake is a substantial amount of money/value now. And with the defi tech of egld wrapping, and other market dynamics, I see very little reason why a stake operator would ever want to unstake, causing a 'slow movement' of node que cycling. 

I propose consideration of a node egld limit decay mechanism.  

On an extended interval of epochs, if the node wait list queue is above x (for example, say 5000), a random active staking node wallet receives a 'retirement smart contract' incoming transaction.  

What is this? The node operator is offered a bonus payment of x (a value that scales, say 500 for example) egld for UNSTAKING  their node.  If they fulfill this smart contract, the node operators gets a big bonus 'retirement' payment that adjusts to node conditions and queues, and then this node is removed from active staking, place on the end of the wait list, opening a new node spot. 

This mechanic would introduce a greater rate or velocity of 'node cycling' which is better to have than a more stationary, or slowing moving queue system. 

 

Thank you for this wonderful blockchain technology, it is really inspiring. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello, I’m new to crypto and to Elrond. I would like to know if I will be able to stake from the Ledger Elrond app to one of these other SPs? I am currently in the waiting list since late January and like the fact that I can control my private keys offline in the Ledger. 
  I’m also interested in how I would find the SPs or when to know to look for them. It would also be nice if when this feature is available there would be a YouTube or linked Twitter video on how to stake with these SPs.

Thank you and your project is my #1 hold

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Andrew said:

Hello, I’m new to crypto and to Elrond. I would like to know if I will be able to stake from the Ledger Elrond app to one of these other SPs? I am currently in the waiting list since late January and like the fact that I can control my private keys offline in the Ledger. 
  I’m also interested in how I would find the SPs or when to know to look for them. It would also be nice if when this feature is available there would be a YouTube or linked Twitter video on how to stake with these SPs.

Thank you and your project is my #1 hold

Hi Andrew,

1. Yes, staking via ledger is already possible.
2. All the SPs will be officially listed on both wallet.elrond.com and Maiar.
3. The SPs will make materials, video, presentations and will support a flawless onboarding for the delegators.

Today will be a new blog post released will all the details around the phase 3 preliminary dates and other specific details.

Best regards,
Marius

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,

I am in a bit of a situation. I advanced in the waiting list so much in the last days that I can become an active delegator in about 24 hours if it keeps the same speed. Calculating the APRs in Phase 3, a Phase that I understand will last for about 5 months, please tell me what are your exact plans with the community nodes. Will you force delegators out at some point or will you wait for people to undelegate and shut down the nodes as that happens? Giving the little price cartel SPs created in the last few days, there is nothing attractive in going with them for Phase 3 instead of going with the Elrond nodes. At least you don`t change your fees from one day to another like they do and their fees come closer to yours. At this point for Phase 3 I am inclined to enter the active delegation to get a 29% APR for the next 3 weeks and 5 months of 17.XX% during Phase 3(if I got the duration of Phase 3 right)... than going with a SP and only get about 18.XX% APR for 5 months - (3200 nodes  + 2 mil eGLD top-ups calculated).  I know the focus is on decentralization and I wanted to go to a SP, but please give me, and others in my situation, some real reasons to go with the SP at this point. I asked some of the SP managers why should I choose SP instead of Elrond nodes in my situation and not even one gave me plausible reasons. I only get political answers and no real facts. If the decision should be a no brainer in favor of SPs, please tell me what details I am missing at this point. Thank you!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...